Healing from Narcissistic Wounds and the Road to Emotional Wisdom with special guest Nichole Lancaster

Have you ever felt entangled in a relationship that seemed too good to be true, only to find yourself lost in a maze of manipulation? That's the reality of narcissistic relationships, and joining me to uncover the layers of such toxic dynamics is my incredible guest Nichole Lancaster. We traverse her personal journey, narrating the chilling progression from the romanticized 'us against the world' mantra to the cold isolation and loss of identity that accompanies narcissistic abuse. The insights gathered from Nicole's experiences serve as a lighthouse for anyone navigating these treacherous waters or questioning the health of their own partnerships.

About Tabitha
Tabitha MacDonald is an intuitive transformation coach dedicated to helping people overcome their pain as fast as possible so that they can have the love, freedom and purpose they truly desire.

To work with Tabitha, please visit Mindful Love online. https://www.mindfullove.love.

DON'T MISS THE MINDFUL LOVE MASTERCLASS!
You can register online today.

45 Day Trial Offer Now Available! Join Today.

Podcast: https://mindfullove.buzzsprout.com/

Linktree: https://linktr.ee/tabithamacdonald

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1UYe-JVvx8zQZnSUlJOjcg

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tabitharmacdonald/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tabitha-macdonald-42752012/

Join the Free FaceBook Tribe: https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindfullove222

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:37

Welcome to the Mindful Love Podcast. I'm your host, tabitha MacDonald, and I am very excited today to have my friend and colleague on. Her name is Nicole Lancaster and she is a podcaster, an entrepreneur and a speaker, single mom and just overall wonder woman. And today what we're going to talk about is narcissistic relationships, and she very generously agreed to share her story to help educate and inspire other people who might be suspecting that they're in one, or how to leave one and how to like, spot the early warning signs. So welcome, nicole. I'm so grateful to have you on today.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk about this.

Speaker 1: 1:27

It's a big topic, it's a hot topic right now.

Speaker 2: 1:31

I know you saw my pause. I'm like, I'm so excited.

Speaker 1: 1:35

I know you're like I just love talking about this. Let's relive the trauma. I know you're like I just love talking about this.

Speaker 2: 1:40

Let's relive the trauma, but I think it's very important that we do talk about it because we're both in the spa industry. I'm an esthetician and all day long we've had people in our beds and it's essentially the same scenarios over and over and people don't understand that it's not isolated to them. It's a very common scenario. So I think it's a very, very important thing to talk about, just so people don't feel alone or they can see maybe themselves and be like oh, that's exactly where I'm at in my relationship right now. So I think it's very important, as uncomfy as it is, to speak about it.

Speaker 1: 2:18

I love that you brought up the isolation piece because I think that, like the first tactic that somebody who's trying to isolate their partner is, they isolate them, and so I think that it's a really lonely journey because you feel alone. You might have gotten rid of all of your friends or not talk to your family about what's going on, and I love that you brought that up because they do. When they come in, we might be like in my massage clinic, we might be the only person that they're opening up to, and I just think that that puts us in such a In a delicate position of being able to help them, you know.

Speaker 2: 3:05

But I will say and I, I think as a society, we've almost romanticized it right. So it's like that, bonnie and clyde, me and you, is all we need us against the world. But that's not true. And we've romanticized the fact that we have isolated ourselves from our friends, from our family. Oh, you don't know him. Oh you don't understand where we almost discredit the fact that a lot of our friends and family have had these experiences and they know exactly how it turns out. That's exactly how I felt, you know, like, oh, you don't know, that's not true. But you know, my parents were just like we were. You know, we're old, we've gone through this. Just wait, we know exactly how this turns out.

Speaker 1: 3:46

But it's the romanticizing of it when it's in fact abuse and isolation oh, my god, I love that you use that analogy, like I absolutely love it because it is. I know, when I met my ex-husband, um, it was like us against the world, like I remember that bombs, and it was like, right, drop everyone else, I need nobody, you meet all of my needs. And it's us against society. And it was, it was like that and it and it's dangerous, right, because then you lose your sense of identity. But it is also very what we kind of classify as romantic, like we think it's romantic because we've always wanted to be seen or to belong or to be special to another human being, and I think that's how they get us.

Speaker 2: 4:38

I mean, they get people being, and I think that's how they get us, I mean, they get people. And I think as you get older you really understand the importance of relationships, not just romantic, but friendships, peers, you know. So you understand isolation isn't where it's at, and when you're isolated they can essentially have you believing anything that you're not good enough, that you're not pretty enough, that nobody else wants you because this is your partner, this is your life person, when in fact it's not. You need all these other relationships to be yourself, to then be in a healthy relationship. But again, we romanticize it where we just accept the abuse as well. It's me and him, he's my team member, she's my team member, whoever your partner is, but it's not true that you're not in a team.

Speaker 1: 5:21

It's abuse right and it's interesting because, like I think that we we, if we had don't had didn't have good modeling of relationships growing up, which a lot of us just don't, because the relationship, world of relationships has gone kind of awry for a large population, um, and so when we look at like that need to belong, I think that that taps in to that need to belong and to be seen, um, but then it's interesting because it's it's not that the, the, you're not worthy enough for anyone else. Abuse starts right away. So I was hoping you could talk about, like, your journey because your relationship didn't start off that way, right? Nobody buys that in the beginning it's kind of a slow burn yeah, um, I'd say relationships because there's been a pattern.

Speaker 2: 6:13

Oh okay, that's okay super proud of. However, each relationship I learned a little different, right and um, I think the the first time was the worst and I was 19. I had a high school boyfriend for three years, so this was um who was lovely.

Speaker 2: 6:30

That was a great relationship. It's just he was in the service. You know, we grew apart. Um, the first about relationship I was in was when I was 19. And so here was someone that um again, I was young, I was getting noticed. It was my first like adult-ish relationship because he was five years older than me, so he had all this experience that I had never had. Um, yeah, and I guess, just like little by little, things started happening that um were red flags, a lot of it. I didn't even know he ended up being um, being a drug addict, and I had never been exposed to drugs so I had no clue what that even looked like. He ended up stealing money from me. He ended up stealing my car. I'm going down to call my cousin at two o'clock in the morning and it was really taking my car to go buy drugs. All these little things I didn't even know to look for because I had never been exposed to this. My parents had never behaved like that. I was never exposed to this.

Speaker 2: 7:24

I grew up in a very strict religious household, so this was all just new to me. But it was somebody older, somebody who had worked hard, who had made decent money, seemed like a provider, seemed like somebody I could rely on. So I really leaned into that. That at the time my parents had also been going through a divorce about like a year before. So I just they were all finding their own lives because they had been married for a long time and they got married very young. So they were finding who they were as adults and I was young, trying to find out who I was, an adult, um. So I just kind of leaned into that support. Here's this, you know good looking guy. Um, like I said, he seemed like he had his things together.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Uh, it seemed like somebody that I could lean into and it just, you know, over time just turned into a complete disaster I love that you brought up that you grew up in a good home, because I think a lot of the times when people grow up in that really nurturing environment they're actually more susceptible to emotional abuse or narcissistic abuse because they've never been exposed to it, so they have no clue what's coming. They're not even aware that that exists. It's like you get into the world and all of a sudden you're like, oh my God, I didn't know people did that. Like right, what? There is that naivety of being a young woman and finding her way and then also going through a hard time and not having that kind of the support you were used to having at home. And like no fault on your parents, right, like they're doing the best they can with their life experience. Right, you know, and, um, you know, and so like it it is.

Speaker 2: 9:12

You were just like the most vulnerable target is what I would say yeah, yeah, and you know, my parents were so religious in the fact growing up, now they're. Now they have different ideas on spirituality, but growing up I mean, I never even saw them drink in the house. You know, there were certain things that we could have, could not watch. They never fought in front of us either, which now, growing up, I'm like, oh, I never saw conflict resolution between my parents. It was, you know, behind closed doors. They would have discussions. I never heard screaming or yelling or fighting. It was behind closed doors. They'd resolve their conflicts and they'd come out. So it wasn't like I wasn't like living in turmoil, I wasn't living in chaos. But I also think, like you said, it kind of made me like, oh, when maybe have faith in someone or trust someone, or even just not understand the signs when they were presented to me.

Speaker 1: 10:03

Yeah, that's really valuable insight, because I've seen this a lot with some of my clients, where they did grow up in that really stable, loving environment and then they weren't prepared for it, and then there was that shame of of I don't really know what's happening to me, I don't know how to deal with this and nobody I know knows what's going on. So I don't know who to, because I was never educated on it, because I never, nobody in my life knows what it is. I, you know, yeah, tend to be quite, um, charming and charismatic. So everyone else is like, oh, what a great guy, right, what a great guy, handsome, got his stuff together. And there's a point where too don't get me wrong I'm not bashing on men. There's lots of narcissistic women out there too, and it's like this oh my gosh, everyone else loves him. It must. Yeah, maybe something's wrong with me. Yeah, um.

Speaker 2: 11:04

So when we had finally broken up and, like you know, it was the narcissistic, but then it was also, you know the comments, the emotional abuse that nobody else is ever going to want me, or you know, now he's trying, you know the process of trying a therapy and now I got to stay with him to help love him through it. So once I got out of that, I started realizing that everything that he had said was false. Yeah, I'm good enough. I was pretty enough. I was like, oh my God, I'm getting attention from men and I was, you know, a teenager when I got in this relationship, so I wasn't used to like doing that.

Speaker 2: 11:42

I mean, I remember the first time I walked in the airport and I was like men are looking at me. This is weird. Like he said, nobody would ever want to be with me, they would just use me for a second, like onto the belt. You know I'm checking out and I'm like, hey, like they're ruining it as I want to. But if no one was there to tell me the box it had to go with the box and the cans of cans, you know, just simple little things like that that you don't realize are a form of control or abuse.

Speaker 1: 12:14

We talk about those, because I want to, I really want people to understand them, that there is like small things yeah, it's not necessarily always the big, oh, nobody would ever want you. It's like, yeah, the small thing, yeah, that really start getting us into that cycle of shame. Like, oh, I don't want to load a shopping cart, dang it right, you need him, I really do. Right, how would I function without him if I didn't know that? Like, so, this is a slow burn. So I'd love to hear about some of those small things that you realized after you broke up, so that if people are listening, they can kind of look at their relationship and go, oh, am I ignoring some of these things that are very controlling?

Speaker 2: 13:04

Yeah, I think it's even you know, commenting about the way they do look right your hair, your clothes, maybe even your body at some point, just like little jabs, like oh, you know you're looking fuller. Or oh, look, you have stretch marks there, do you not know? You have stretch marks, like little things like that, where it's not necessarily like an attack. Um, my last ex I remember we had just started dating and I it was a can, I was opening a can of like beans or something, and he was telling me that's not the way that you opened it. And I remember looking at him and I was like I am 30 years old, it is not black or white, there are a million ways to do things. And you're trying to teach me how to open a can and I should have ran like that should have been the biggest red flag and run and run.

Speaker 2: 13:48

Um, but little things like that. Oh, why are you cooking it like that? Oh, why, like who cares? You know who cares, but just little controlling things about cooking clothing, you know. Oh well, you know who cares, but just little controlling things about cooking clothing, you know. Oh well, you know I I'm not acting in this way or I'm doing this because you're acting this way or you're doing, and there's a lot of reactive abuse. I noticed, um, in narcissistic relationships, where they do something so you react and then you feel like the crazy one or you feel like the reactive one, but when you think back to it it's like, well, I reacted because I was pushed this way, or I was pushed too far, and it wasn't that I can't control myself or control my temper, it's that I was pushed and pushed, and pushed until I exploded. And then, once I got that reaction out of me, it's oh my god, you're so reactive. Oh my god, you're crazy. What I'm not been calm, cool, collected, until I was pushed off the ledge.

Speaker 1: 14:40

I love that you brought that up, because that is one of the most covert techniques of controlling another human. My husband used to do that to me. He would wind me up and he would wait and he would push and he would prod and he'd look for a way in and then I would explode in anger, a like complete, just word, vomit, rage. And he had to run off crying because I was like why am I such an angry human being? Right, when I was going through a divorce, my therapist said to um, read the book the dance of anger by harriet learner completely changed my life.

Speaker 1: 15:17

I was like this is our entire relationship. Like he didn't know how to express anger, so he would wind me up so I could express yeah, and then I would be the lunatic. And he got to sit there all calm and be like look kids, your mom's crazy. Yeah, all right, all experience, awful right. Experience like I don't lose my temper ever since I left like, yeah, in fact, if I feel the sense of losing my temper with someone again, I'll sit down, sit back, and I'll be like, oh, how am I giving my power away? And I'll, yeah, check myself because I know that's not who I am, so I'd love that.

Speaker 2: 15:56

My guide now is physical. So if I'm in any type of physical angst, if I'm depressed, if I'm anxious in the house with you, without you, if I'm in physical, my body's like girl, it's time Like get out. We tried to show you so many other ways, but now for me it's a physical reaction where I'm like okay, my body is no longer okay around this person. It's not safe mentally, physically, like this is not where I need.

Speaker 1: 16:23

so excited that you brought this up. This is my favorite topic because that's how I got into working with emotional abuse recovery, and narcissistic abuse recovery is because of the body. I would have clients come in and I noticed a pattern in their bodies People who endured long-time narcissistic abuse and I was like, does nobody see this pattern? Like the body is telling you that you're safe, but most people are so disconnected from their bodies they're not listening, and so my cue is my left calf will cramp when I'm around someone I'm not supposed to be well, so what's your physical cue like? Do you have like a cue where you're like, oh okay, body, I'm listening?

Speaker 2: 17:07

anxiety one million percent anxiety. Yeah, I remember in my 20s I was dating this man who was much older than me, which clearly was daddy issues, right, um, but again, it was I was. It had been a year and a half, two years out of this first bad relationship and I was like you know what? Now I know what to look for as far as drug addicts or people that take advantage of me. So here's this older man who seems stable and charming. Everyone was like oh, we like him. He's so nice, I'm like. The problem is he's nice to every woman. That's the problem. The problem he's already ended up being a cheater.

Speaker 2: 17:38

Yeah, so it was a different form of abuse, but I remember just being in the house because we lived together for a little bit and I'd be in his house that I moved into and just being there alone. I was so anxious and I would start looking everywhere for everything. I mean, I found condoms in the suit, um, you know those, the suit um, the suit um. What are they called? Those hanger things that like For his garment bags Okay, garment bags. There'd be boxes of condoms in the bottom of the garment bags. He'd have condoms shoved in suit pocket. He would just hide them all over, right.

Speaker 2: 18:09

So it became a thing for me where every day when I was home alone, I would just scour through everything and I realized that I was just living in anxiety and depression because I'd get home and my anxiety be so high. I just had to do something myself and I had to find something. And then I would find it. And then he would come home and there'd be some sort of justification of, oh, that's old or that was here before you moved in, and I had no idea because I just found it. So it was this constant cycle of high anxiety, you know, some sort of justification worrying the back of my mind, like it was.

Speaker 2: 18:41

And then I just realized I'm like Nicole, you're physically getting ill. Being in this house, being around this person, no go. And we talked about this the other day. I think that you know a lot of people end up staying or getting in the cycle of someone and it's egotistical. So we see our person that we've broken up with, that we're like this person is horrible. All we've wanted to do is love them through change or have them change or support them through a change and be a better person. These people don't change. They don't change. They don't change, and that's not me just saying it.

Speaker 1: 19:13

We've talked to thousands of women over the years and men these people don't change well and that's important to recognize, like just for just a minute, like because I know they'll have moments of change. They'll have moments and periods and stretches of what I would like to say like a relapse or not, where they're in that remission stage, where they're doing the nice things and they're rebuilding the trust and they're rebuilding the bond, rebuilding the relationship, but then they have a relapse and then, yeah, unless they're actively working, the program, like it's not going to change and there's no cure for it. Like, yeah, from what I understand in in this day, and there's no cure for narcissistic disorder. Now there's people who have narcissistic tendencies and they're different. That's not the actual personality disorder, but the actual disorder. There's no cure, so it's just therapy and a lot of work and you have to think about do you really want to give your life away to that journey? Yeah, knowing that it's always going to be hard for you.

Speaker 2: 20:25

So I don't call it a contemporary change. I say that people's behavior improves, yes, because they're doing what they need to do to get you back, and for me, I've always seen it's a 90 day period. And so your ego steps in, because you see them going to therapy. You see they got a new car, what they need to do to get you back. And for me, I've always seen it's a 90-day period. And so your ego steps in, because you see them going to therapy. You see they got a new car. You see they've got a house cleaner. You see that they've gotten all the things that you've asked of them and they're doing all the things you've just wanted for them. Meanwhile, they've had this time off, so they've been dating and having sex with people let's be realistic, right? But in your minds again, you're romanticized. They've been working on themselves for me, so they're doing all this thing. And then your ego kicks in and your ego says well, why should the next girl have him? Or why should the next girl have her? Now she's being her best or he's being his best. They're living their best life. They're everything I've wanted and everything I've tried to love them through. Why should somebody else get all my hard work. So you go back Again. It's like a 90 day thing, right? So they're doing exactly what they need to do.

Speaker 2: 21:24

I mean, I've had people in therapy. I've had people, you know, talk to psychiatrists and get Medicaid. I've had people do everything. I've had somebody buy a new mattress because I'm like you've been single for three months. I don't know where that map. Like, I've had people do the most right to get me back because they've changed.

Speaker 2: 21:40

The issue is that when you're back, they slowly start going back to their old ways. So you allowed your ego to kick in and think that this was supposed to be for you, because you wanted nobody else to have this, because of all the work you've put in. And why should you go through all this trauma and hard work for somebody to get the best version, the version you always wanted, this person. But it's not true, right? So they're going to do the same exact thing to any person to get that person and behave this way and behave like they're. You know, this mentally stable person for a tiny bit. And so they get that person, just like they did you, and then they're going to be the same exact person. So they don't change. Their behavior improves for a small window of time and then go right back to who they are, to their core yeah, I 100% agree.

Speaker 1: 22:24

I remember when I was breaking up with my ex, my ex-girlfriend fluid um, but she would post online about how she did all this inner work and like, posted all these pictures of her and her new, younger, beautiful model and I in me I was in so much agony because I was like, why didn't she do that for me? And I made it mean that I wasn't enough. Later, right when we got back together, she admitted she did it to get my attention, to get me back, and so like, yeah, planned, very curated, very planned, yeah, very intentional, and so like, when you're in the throes of that separation period, they'll look like living their best life and then you're like feeling like garbage and that'll get you back. Do not underestimate, they're doing it on purpose, right? Sure, you come back.

Speaker 2: 23:24

And also now that I'm a grown woman who can clearly have empathy for others. What about that poor woman who thought she was in a relationship with someone that loved her and meanwhile your ex is calculated doing this just to get you back? But then why are you with someone else? Is it just to have them, you know, as this prop to get back your ex? Or is it so you're not alone? Or is it a combination of everything? Is it a placeholder, so that you're not like it's all just disgusting? It is so disgusting like sad, it's sad. Yeah, that's. My thing now is I'm always like I just I have empathy and I feel sorry for the next person who dates these people, because you know the poor things are going to go through exactly what I had to go through.

Speaker 1: 24:09

That's why, like when I'm working with people, I'm like I love to empower people with intuition and heal the parts of them that were attracted to or wounded by them. Because if we become a narcissistic proof society that's what I'll call it we don't have the big one Because they don't have a feed, they don't have a supply, because we'll no longer fall into the trap. But that means you have to know your value. You need to know your self-worth and boundaries, which to a codependent or recovery codependent feels like death when we put boundaries up, because that's our wounding. But we have to learn how to do boundaries.

Speaker 1: 24:54

We have to understand the science behind a secure attachment style so that we can move into that secure attachment style, because then when you meet a narcissist, they're going to come right by you. They're going to be like oh, you're too difficult, I don't want to even try, because you know your values, you have needs, yeah, you have boundaries. They're not even going to want to be in the room with you because it's not going to be fun for them and so they'll just walk on by. And that's why I love it, like when I'm teaching love and relationships. I'm like we just need to become narcissistic proof, and then the next girl isn't going to be there to be swept up in it, like she'll know how to. Yeah, first place.

Speaker 2: 25:40

I think we need to be okay with being alone and I think we need to take the time alone and not not to put our value and I see so many women do this. We put our value on the attention of a man. So you know, we got to have a man to really make ourselves feel valuable or feel wanted. And I think when you know how to be by yourself and you don't validate your self-worth by whether or not you can be with a man or attention to a man, is when you can really grow as a human being. And I look back to scenarios where I've been in not great relationships and I'm like, ah no, I didn't value myself then, I had no self-worth. Like I can pinpoint how I was feeling, what I was feeling at the time.

Speaker 2: 26:21

But I think now, um, you know, now you can't tell me shit about me. I told you this a million times, like I've said the meanest shit to myself, like you can't tell me nothing. I've been a horrible friend to myself, but now I am so confident in my love for myself and who I am for myself and just, you know me as a person and it's not egotistical, it's understanding that I'm good, you know with me, like I'm solid with me, that you can just start to see You're like, oh no, this person behaves like this, or this person only wants this from me, or you know we're not on the same page and you can articulate that and set that boundaries. But when you don't truly love yourself, you're going to settle for whatever you can, especially if you validate who you are as a person by the attention you get. You know from someone, yeah, that's how you fall into that.

Speaker 1: 27:10

Well, and that's why I teach the Enneagram, because so many people don't know who they are and they don't understand how their personality operates. And, like you understand the Enneagram, it's like a little manual to your brain and to your attachment lens. It's like a little manual to your brain and to your attachment wounds so that, like, when you meet those people and they feel like a soulmate, and then you can realize is this soul love or is this an attachment wound, like lit like a firework, and I think that's really important to do your inner work.

Speaker 1: 27:36

I always wanted to be in a relationship. It was always on my goal list and the last year, since my last breakup, this is the first time in my life where it's just not even something that I'm even thinking about, like I would normally have it in my mind, like in the back of my mind, and for the first time I'm actually like it's not even something I'm considering right now because, yeah, really enjoying this phase of life, getting to know who I am and who I'm choosing to be, and then spending time with my girlfriends and other friends and just getting to like know myself outside of it. So, um, it's been interesting because, if you had asked me before, I wouldn't have thought that that was something that I struggled with, but now, looking back hindsight, I can see that I was always searching for someone to love me.

Speaker 2: 28:33

Yeah, yeah, I think you know I was born in 86 and I think that that was still kind of the tail end of you date, you know the old school. You date, uh, you get married young, you have children, um, and I got pregnant at 30 and I was not in a relationship. We were, you know, dating, um, and we decided not to get married. Um, I mean, that wasn't even an option, let me know. Play, that wasn't an option, um, but we decided not to be together. Let me say that.

Speaker 2: 29:01

But, but in the back of my mind, you know that's we were told get married, have kids, have white picket fence, you know, be a family Like that's what we were told family is, and for me, as a single mother, that was still something that I always wanted and always yearned for was marriage. I'm like, okay, well, I didn't get to have a baby with someone, I didn't get to experience someone touching my stomach and talking to my child. The thing I want, then, is just to be married. I want to be married, and it's not that I actively was dating to look for that, but it's something that I felt like I was missing out on. If you are single and working on yourself. It's not to say it doesn't get lonely, it's not to say you don't miss companionship, but you know that you're working on yourself and you start to find companionship, um, in other places. And again it's different because it's not romantic. But you start to really understand like, okay, the, the societal norm of what it used to be back in the day is no longer. A lot of my friends are single mom friends that you know. We, we hang, have kids, some date, some don't, but we're there to support each other in other ways. Versus having that husband person in our life. It's just different. You just start to learn how to have those different relationships and depend on people in different ways and ask for help from your friends and family versus that person to rely on.

Speaker 2: 30:27

And I have actually been able to see like, okay, I mean, you know, now I help be a caretaker for my 91-year-old grandmother who is in heart failure. And now I'm like, okay, universe, I wasn't meant to get married. I wasn't meant to marry, you know, the last person I was in a long-term relationship with because how could I take care of her, how could I be there for her? And every woman I've been that's been close to me and my family. I've been their caretaker at the end of life.

Speaker 2: 30:53

So you see how the universe works, even though you don't fully understand it in the moment. It can be something like this, like years later and you're like, okay, well, if I was married to the husband and a bunch of kids, I can never be here for this person. So I'm okay with I'm okay. I'm okay with the way my life is now, even though it wasn't what I expected or what I truly wanted in those moments. I'm great with how it is now because this is where the universe led me to and it doesn't mean I won't have those things in the future. It means I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be right now, in this moment, because this, I'm supposed to be here for someone else in a completely different way.

Speaker 1: 31:29

Yeah, and I love that. I love so much about that. But the thing I wanted to circle back around to was that vision of the white picket fence, because that is why I stayed with my husband for so long and I did not grow up in a good home and I had this fantasy that when I was 27, I don't know where I came up with that number, but I would finally be an adult and get to have the family I always dreamed of. I got pregnant unexpectedly at 29. And I was about to leave him but he said no, no, no, no, I'll change. And we stayed and there was no change. But we had two kids and no, there was change. There was a five year relapse period where he was sober.

Speaker 1: 32:14

So we did have that period of the white picket fence and, like the big friend groups and the fantasy, and I think when I started dating, when, when my kids, when we divorced, I wanted that fantasy, I was like I'm not giving up on that, like I know it's still out there, and I think the benefit of being 48 now is that I know that's not really on the table anymore because I'm not having any more kids. I've gone through menopause Like um, it's not on the table anymore because I'm not having any more kids. I've gone through menopause like um, it's not on the table anymore. So it almost released me from this, this fantasy life that I yeah, anything, but was never able to to achieve. And it wasn't my life path, right, like that's not how my life was supposed to be, just like you just said it was in your life path, because you had other things in your life path that were more of a priority.

Speaker 2: 33:09

Yeah Well, I also think too that people are getting very older now. So I think that the white picket fence can be in your future, but I think in order for it to be successful and for the universe to really bring it to you and have it, you have to be whole, as you are, as a person. Back in the day, people got married young and they grew together and, let's be honest, people just stayed together, just to stay together, and it wasn't really successful. But you see a lot of people now getting married older, like as a second time or maybe even the first time, but they're a whole person getting married and this is who they are as an adult and as a person now and yes, we change a little bit here and there, but this is who we are as a person now. And they're finding their partner, who's their soulmate, because they're on the same thing together.

Speaker 1: 33:56

They're on the same wavelength versus accepting somebody for who they are, because I just looked up second marriage rates, for for failure, it's 70 percent and that's a failure yes, 70. Because they don't take the time to do their inner work. They just take their baggage, which is just a little bit hitter the next relationship and that's why I like that. It's just funny that you brought that up, because we were doing research on it the other day and I was like, oh, it's got to be better. People do their inner work and it was higher and I thought, oh my gosh, that's why we need to do our inner work between relationships, so we don't carry the same baggage into the next relationship, hoping it will be different, like a different guy out of different.

Speaker 2: 34:39

Yeah, no, I was shocked when I looked up the statistic so there's still hope for me for my first marriage in my older years. That's what you're saying. That's what I took from that.

Speaker 1: 34:48

That's what I took from that, I'm an officiant, so I would like to be the person who rants you. I had this great, great, yeah, I'm doing massage and and wedding ceremonies at the same time. I was like, oh, that would be such a cool niche. So the same time I was like, oh, that would be such a cool niche. Um so so I want to like just talk about how do you know when it's enough and how do you know when to walk, and how did you finally find the strength, especially that younger one, the 19 year old? Because I was in a similar relationship when I was 18 and it was not easy to leave, and I think that one set me up for many decades of similar power. And so how did you know when to walk away and how did you do it?

Speaker 2: 35:40

So when I was younger, in that younger relationship, he one day just left. He left and moved in with his cousin to Mississippi and I was devastated. Devastated Because we talked about the things, the marriage, the kids, the things right. We'd have been together, I think, a year and a half, two years, unfortunately, which in your old time, by the way, is like 10 years.

Speaker 1: 36:02

It's a lifetime. It's a lifetime, so I do not any younger listeners. Don't play it half-thumb. That's a long time.

Speaker 2: 36:09

Yes. So he called me and of course we were working things out over the phone and he had no money. He was living with his cousin who was, I think, in the Marines or Coast Guard something in Mississippi. And again I was devastated because one day he just left and he was like you know, I really want to be with you, but I just I can't live in Florida anymore. I just really want to be home. I want to go back to Chicago. And I was like, yes, whatever you need from me, yes, and my parents supported me. My parents helped me pack all my things into a U-Haul and we drove to Chicago and I lasted three months with him and his family.

Speaker 2: 36:46

His mom was a drug addict as well Pills. It was just horrible. He was older than me, I wasn't 21 yet I was getting left all the time. I had no friends there. Again, I was isolated.

Speaker 2: 36:57

But now he was smart enough to manipulate me and my family to be able to get money to go back home with the things right. And then we get there and he's trying to take my couch, my table, my dog. I was like you got to be out of your mind, like you think that I'm splitting my things with you. So I realized that he did all that just to get up there. I called my dad and I was like, look, I can't do this anymore. I'm sorry, I know that. You know, you have just helped me move here. You just, you know, spent all this money to help me. Um, can you help me come back? And he was like yeah, and I knew that it was over over, because he wouldn't even help me get to the airport, and this was in the time where it was google map and not google maps, it was map quest. You didn't have gps on your phone and I am my sense of direction is horrible, right? So I'd be like in 0.01 miles and I would like reset the what is it? Odometer so I would know exactly when the next one was. I was so bad, you know, but I'm driving into the city, but he was so scared of my dad and I was like this guy has done something really bad, uh, to be terrified of my father, and he had it just of course in my dad, and I was like this guy has done something really bad to be terrified of my father and he had just, of course, in my eyes. I hadn't like seen all that right. So I came back to Florida and, of course, he had truly worked on himself.

Speaker 2: 38:17

He ended up coming back a few months later. He had been dating someone but he really loved me, all the things, and it just started to fizzle. He ended up moving back too and I just started seeing things. He started talking to people on AOL and InstaMessenger. I started looking at his call records. It was just the repeat pattern of what he had done in the past.

Speaker 2: 38:39

And the final thing was he was like can I please just stay on your phone records? I'll give you money and I'm like sure. And I started looking at his phone records and he was calling someone with a different area code and I confronted him. He's like that's my cousin. I was like your cousin doesn't live in West Virginia. And I hung up on him, I disconnected his phone. Anything that was left in my house I threw away. I was just done. You know, as a woman, I think that when we're done, done, we hit that done, done, yeah, and I just fall on board one too many times. You know it just ugh. And now, like when you look at those people, I'm like I can't believe.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Then have compassion for the younger version of you who didn't have the growth and knowledge that you have now like I think she just wasn't thinking.

Speaker 2: 39:27

I'm gonna say that it was just like a lapse of non, no thoughts no, no, no, no, that's neuro five.

Speaker 1: 39:33

That nope that you were definitely thinking. I'll give you my Enneagram analogy. Right now, I love my fives, the head triad tend to be very disconnected from their emotions, and people like that know how to put a direct feed into your emotional center and because you're not connected to your emotions, they know how to feed something and to like, use it in their advantage. Because five, sixes and sevens are the most dissociated from their emotional state and so it's like the prime entry point for someone how to manipulate emotions, because you don't know it's happening, because you're up here in logic and reason and so, um, that feels right, that's just my little enneagram.

Speaker 1: 40:25

Uh, tidbits, right, yeah, and it's like. That's why, number one, we have to become emotionally intelligent. We have emotionally intelligent someone can come in and see that gap in our um, in our needs list, because we're emotional beings and yeah, but they'll fill it with the emotions they want to. So, yeah, becoming an emotional ninja is like number one, and then people can't get in there and twist them for you when I think, dating now too, I'm so much more self-aware.

Speaker 2: 41:01

So now when I date, I'm not desperate, I'm not like, pick me, pick me. I want to be with someone. I'm yearning for you. You seem like the perfect person on paper, because I dated the perfect person on paper and they were such an asshole. So I no longer am that yearning. I'll go on apps and I'm like, oh, he's cute, oh, it seems like we could get along. And then we'll talk a little bit and I'm like no, like you're not what I'm looking for. I'm not desperate to go out with you.

Speaker 2: 41:25

I can feed myself. Like, if you're gonna like make me get up, shave my legs and put on some eyeliner, it's got to be worth it, because if it's wasted I'm gonna be pissed that I moved you from binge watching Bridgerton's coming up from binge watching Netflix. You know like you've now taken my time and I've prepped for this and it's a waste. So it really has to be worth it now and I really have to understand. Okay, well, maybe we're on the same page and if not, maybe we could still be good friends if it doesn't work out for dating, but I just date with completely different attention. I have a life. I'm not waiting for a text to respond to a text like, oh, they know I'm a great, respond Like no, I have a life. I don't want to get to it, not in a rude way, but it's just. It's completely different day to night versus before.

Speaker 1: 42:07

It's funny, I go on the app. I think I went on the app the last time, maybe a year and a half ago, because I had an intuitive reading and it was like it told me you're not going to meet your person on the app, so meet them in alignment with your life, like they're just not there. And it was this huge like relief because I was like I don't have to bother with them anymore, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. I know that the person I'm going to meet one day is just an alignment and so, because I hated the apps, I was like I don't want to sit here and chit chat about the same thing over and over again and just be bored out of my mind by uninteresting conversations. Like, what a waste of my day. I could do that with Netflix. Yeah, like, yeah, no.

Speaker 2: 42:53

I know, but then I'm also like then I got to leave my house.

Speaker 1: 43:18

You know me as a five I'm like, but then I have to leave my house. You know you don't need to be totally healed before you start dating, because when you start dating someone it's going to bring up all your baggage and garbage and so it's nice to have like a coach while you start dating to help you work through it, because if you don't have that like ally, you're gonna fall back into some old patterns and be like it didn't work and then it's like no, no, no, it's just this is good, it's just bringing up stuff we didn't know was there and you want to keep working on yourself while you're, you know, integrating into learning how to be in a healthy, secure relationship. So so what?

Speaker 2: 43:53

you're telling me is that I can text you to be my dating coach and be like hey girl, what do you think of this guy? And you can just send me like a red flag or a green flag, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:05

Yeah, I can do readings on it and they're extremely accurate. Actually, one of the guys from my intuition training in January he goes your reading was so accurate. I went home, I met the exact person you said I was gonna meet, and not only that, but, like you know, the relationship ended. But it was good, it was exactly what I needed for the growth period and I was awesome.

Speaker 1: 44:29

Yeah, that's, you know, that's what we had talked about in the reading and I get that a lot where it's like, oh my god, your reading was so accurate about this person I was gonna meet and, um, the experience I was meant to have in it. And so, yeah, using tuition or meeting with someone who's an intuitive coach is amazing, because we can read that person's energy fields too and kind of go yeah, is this, you know? And sometimes the right person for you might be the person who's going to challenge you and break your heart because the lesson needs to be learned. Not that I would say that's a common thing, but sometimes that is the right person for you to help bring up something that you need to work through narcissistic.

Speaker 2: 45:17

as women, when we get out of a narcissistic relationship, a lot of times we have to live in our masculine so much in those relationships to keep ourselves protected, to keep our house going. If we have kids, just to like keep the household running, then I think the hardest thing for me and for someone I know is just be able to live in our feminine again. So I have really just been working on just relaxing and being back in my feminine and my soft, because we're always so guarded and tough and strong in these horrible traumatic relationships that it's just learning to just be gentle and soft and be able to live in our feminine around men again has been a big learning curve for me when I've had to be just living in my masculine for so long, but it feels good, like it feels good. Just that's what I want. I want to live in my feminine with a man, but finding the man who actually lives in his masculine not toxic masculine- Right, because there's a big difference.

Speaker 1: 46:08

Because I think one of the reasons strong, powerful women are attracted to narcissistic partners is because they give you that false sense of I'm going to take care of you, because they have that like strong initial masculine energy and it doesn't matter if it's a male or female and you go, oh, I can relax into my feminine, this is amazing. And then they don't. They actually do the opposite and then you can't live in your feminine at all and I think that that is how they get a lot of women is that we're tired of living in masculine energy and we want that feminine energy. And they know who make us feel like in the beginning that that's what we'll get in the relationship and it's like, yeah, breathe, I feel safe in this container of masculine energy, but then it's toxic. And yeah, you know really teaching people about the difference between toxic masculinity, toxic femininity, and then the the opposite of that really healthy energy and how to bring that out, especially when you're dating. Because if you show up masculine when you're dating, you're going to get a very feminine man and then you're going to be very mad later, and then the same goes with all of it. You know how you show up when you're dating is what you're going to get, and then, a lot of the time, it's not the person that you want it to be with.

Speaker 1: 47:35

So Right, so right. Okay, I could talk to you about this for hours, but I think we have to wrap up um, so much. Um, if you could give like just one little word of hope or inspiration to anybody who might be in a similar position and I'm really like really thinking about the young girls who are super, yeah, this, what would you tell them to help them? Say you're, you can leave, like it's okay, you'll, you'll survive it.

Speaker 2: 48:07

I would say he's not the love of your life, babe. He has you convinced again, romanticizing the Bonnie and Clyde. There's so much more for you out there and I know that there's like a war right now against men and women, but there's so much more. There's so many great men out there. There's so many loving, caring men who want to take care of you and not like in a financial way. They want to make sure you're good emotionally. They want to make sure you're good physically Like that is a true masculine man.

Speaker 2: 48:36

Whatever little boy you're good physically like that is a true masculine man. Whatever little boy you're playing with right now, he ain't it. Um, there's so much more for you out there and once you just kind of separate as painful as it's going to be in the beginning every time it gets a lot less painful and every day gets less painful than the day before. And once you're able to just work on yourself and get separated from that situation, you're going to see how much love and abundance of love and just how many great men are out there that you're not even going to remember that dude's name Love that.

Speaker 1: 49:07

I love that. Thank you so much. That's amazing and beautiful and absolutely spot on. So I was just thinking we are definitely going to have some Bridgerton talks on our podcast coming up as soon as free comes out, because I can't wait. I was like, oh, podcast segment coming, bridgerton talks that's one of my favorite shows on the planet. All right, thank you so much today for joining me and I just really appreciate your vulnerability. All right, thank you so much today for joining me and I just really appreciate your vulnerability and I really really appreciate you telling your story to help other people women and who are in similar positions just kind of have that like validation about their experience and also know that life is actually better on the other side. It's just a bunch of lies, that you were sold, that it's not and it really is, and it's hard to know right in it, but like it really is better when you're out. Yep, oh, thank you so much. I have so much love for you. Thank you for having me all right button.

Speaker 2: 50:10

Thank you.